Since this video, which I admit to having not seen, is told from and only supports Tammy Faye's version (not my view, but the views of the many reviews I looked at about the video), do you think you were getting the whole, true story in that video; or, at least to some extent, what she wants people to see and belive? I agree that a person needs to get the whole story, all the sides, as much as possible. But since the video was not an objective look, I don't believe you will get it just from her movie any more than you would get it from just reading the secular press's view or some of the other participants viewpoints. The truth is somewhere in the midst of it all. You mentioned what she said aout Jerry Falwell; what is his response? Is it true or is she passing the buck, pointing a finger? I don't know, I am just saying that this is her word, not God's. There are facts, objective facts about what happened back then. She and Jim were both involved. The sheep were lied to and fleeced. People were being glorified, and their lives made wealthy. That is actually only part of the story anyway. The way ministry is gone about is as important as it's goals. The end does not justify the means. The ministry fell for a reason. And I am not saying they are still at that place. Jesus doesn't reject those who are His even when they fall. But repentance, and honest acceptance of responsibility are a must; not blame shifting, excuse making, or defensive posturing; especially for such a high profile ministry and scandal. Many were hurt. Jesus name was muddied. I do hope that she and Jim are truly walking with the Lord and have moved past that and know His strength and peace in their lives now. And I am not saying there isn't some truth, or aspects worth looking at in video. I do know there is only one sure source of unadulterated truth, (no pun intended). The lessons to be learned should be looked at by a number of new TV "ministries" were personality, hype, and money are the central keys.

P.S.- I do plan on getting and watching the video now to see more of the person. I do agree with you, even if I don't accept all she would say, it would help me, or anyone, to understand her better, and round out my view a little more.

And here I thought what I wrote may stir some things up *S*. I guess I will add one more postscript. Part of the reason I wrote what I did has to do with my own life..

I have been on both sides of the issue. Having, as a young Christian, to confront a fellow Christian, my best friend at the time from the Bible College I was going to, with the sin he was walking in. This was done with love and care, not out of condemnation. While many are quick to quote "judge not lest you be judged", which is speaking of judging with condemnation, self righteously as if one were not a sinner also, or above the other; scripture does tell us to judge sin and call it what it is in this world and to judge as in correcting sin in the body of Christ for the believers own good, Christ's glory, and reconciliation. There is a time scripture tells us to correct, rebuke.

I have also been on the other side. Having weakened in my walk with the Lord after having been deeply involved in ministry, and letting myself go my own way for awhile; I sought out some trusted fellow Christians to confide in, hold myself accountable to, and to confess to those who I affected and others the Lord put on my heart, the sin in my life. This was uncomfortable, humbling, feeling ashamed with my own family. But it was also necessary, and the best thing, the only thing that would have brought about the healing and restoration needed. Any fall out was proper. It was a tough and painful time, but now I am able to continue on, honestly, and be who the Lord wants me to be again.

All of us have sins, secrets, struggles, that we fight daily and deal with on that level. There are some that affect others and we must deal with them; confess, ask forgiveness, make restitution. There are some that have a wider circle such as I felt mine did, and that I needed to tell several, even if they were not affected and hold myself accountable. And then there are those, as with Jim and Tammy Baker, that are public, for not only the body of Christ to see, but the world. That is where it is a must to be honest, direct, take responsibility, no matter how painful, and deal with the consequences. That is why I wrote what I did in response to the video review. Not to condemn Tammy, maybe she has been honest and taken responsibility for her part and knowledge. But if she hasn't, it is the only way to truly move on.

Yeah, way too long. And I know this isn't a Christian debate site. So Scott stirred me up, blame him. Who else would have such a video review? Definitely unique :).

I think the biggest problem with people in the spotlight is the media is just waiting for them to screw-up so they'll have something to report on. I mean, reporting that Michael Jackson almost dropped his baby from a hotel window is much more interesting than reporting that Michael Jackson is a good father.

Drama sells news.

So in the process, I believe that reporters exagerate or leave pieces of the story out a lot of the time.

And this goes for Christians and non-Christians. If you're famous or in some leadership position, the media would love to see you involved in some sort of scandal.

Very true, they don't always get the story right, or care to. Good thoughts. And Christians are often an easy or desired mark.

The media though isn't responsible for anyones sins, even if they glory in them. All the more reason for Christians in the public eye to take seriously scriptures admonition to "abstain from even the appearance of evil", and to be honest, even with failings. I admire Billy Graham for how he has conducted hisself.

I truly believe that it was God that allowed things to break open and brought down PTL. He is stil sovereign, and loves them enough, as Hebrews says, to disciplin his children when necessary. If things were allowed to continue, the damage to thousands who backed the ministry as well as those leading PTL who were responsible...... God sees the big picture still. I know it was his mercy and grace, as Romans says, that lead me to repentance; even if it was a hard way to go.

It is not about us. It is all about God and what he did for us. Think of this you are getting your Wedding Pictures taken and the photograhper keeps sticking his head into the pictures. You would say this our wedding not his. It is all about God. We are not going to heaven because we are so good. We are going to heaven because God is so good. We need to focus on God and not Tammy Faye, put your hope in God as the Bible says. Even the apostle Paul did not draw attention to himself. This country needs to get over self. Marie

Yes, it is about God, and that is where the focus should be. But remember Paul wrote to some he had discipled to follow him as He followed Christ. The discussion really wasn't about focusing on Tammy Faye, but about some issues the video brought up. Scott was talking about the way the media is, something that it is wise for Christians, especially public ones, to be aware of. And I was bringing up the aspect of what image do we give to Jesus and Christianity when we call ourselves Christians, believers.

It would be nice to think that people don't draw wrong conclusions from others lives, but scripture, and our own experiences tell us different. That is why we are told to "be" witnesses, not go witnessing. We are the sign, the light, to point to Jesus Christ. We are witnesses whether we want to be or not. Witnesses glorifying God if we bear fruit; witnesses negatively if we mess up. Then people's own sinful nature, and the enemy playing upon that, create lies, excuses, blame; all becoming stumbling blocks.

That is why the Bible has so many admonishions for us on how we appear to the world, to be that light, bear fruit, to live to honor God and not give others a reason to disgrace His name because of our behavior. If we fall we know forgiveness and His love are there for us still. That doesn't mean it cannot affect others though. It is just that while the focus is to be on God; many are looking at us who claim to be His and will see and understand Christianity by our lives. We do affect their image of God. Are they drawn to Him by what they see or turned away?

I saw Tammy Faye on the news last night. She attended the famous Barnstable Party on Derby Eve. She said she chose the horse "Ten Most Wanted" because she had 2 husbands in prison. What a testimony!!!

The bakers were only following Lord Jesus Christ commands or was it Satan it is hard to tell between what a preacher says and what they do. These preachers are only doing what the Church of Rome has been doing for the last 2200 years by using the fear of God and Hell if its members do not Tithe and do Good Stewardship. Maybe the lack of fear that God will turn them into a pile of dust when they first commited sin (greed) that Satan did not open a firey pit for them when the sin the second time and so on. Maybe a God who used to strike evil people with a lighting bolt has just decided that it is a "So What" if people are still so stupid to put faith in crooked preachers then they should not find their way into heaven.
As Jesus once said; "God does not reward a place in Heaven to the greedy Porphet or those who build fine castles of stone in the name of God, while its members do not have enought to eat."

Secretary

Afterlife2.org

TAMMY AND JIM'S MINISTRY FELL BECAUSE SATAN (CERTAIN PEOPLE) WERE JEALOUS AND ENVIOUS OF THE ENORMITY OF THEIR WORK, IF YOU UNDERSTOOD TITHING, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ACCORDING TO LEVITICAL LAW, THE PRIESTS AND MINISTERS COULD KEEP 90% OF THE TITHE. (A TITHE IS 10%) WOW, SEE HOW GOD REWARDS 100% FOLD. THEY WERE ON THE WAY TO BUILDING A GLORIOUS CHURCH TO THE LORD, AND OF COURSE SATAN STEPPED IN AGAIN, JUST LIKE WITH JESUS, SATAN WORKED THROUGH SO CALLED MEN OF GOD,(WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING) WHO CAME IN AND DESTROYED THE WORK OF GOD. THE MAIN PURPOSE OF MAN IS TO FILL THE WORLD WITH THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD. GOD STATES, BUT FOR AS TRULY AS I LIVE, ALL THE EARTH SHALL BE FILLED WITH THE GLORY OF THE LORD,

JIM WAS CRUCIFIED JUST LIKE ALL THE PROPHETS BEFORE JESUS, AND ALL THE APOSTLES, STEVEN WAS STONED TO DEATH, PAUL WAS CRUCIFIED, IF THE WORLD WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO TOUCH THE GLORY OF GOD, THEY WOULD KNOW THEN THAT WHEN MAN GETS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE GLORY, SATAN COMES IN AND DESTROYS IT.

I love what you said Marie, "We are not going to Heaven because we are so good. We are going to Heaven because God is so good." Well said!

Ms.Stone's comment that Jim Baker was brought down by Satan is downright naive. People are brought down by their own lust, and greed. God is calling his servants to be accountable, and responsible. Please, do not make excuses for his behavior, and try to shift the blame. It is a primary reason that makes Christians appear incohrent and dogmatically pathetic.

Heh, yes, if Ms. Stone is correct, then Satan won (!) in the Baker's case. And tracing back through her logic, then Christ's death on the Cross is a victory for Satan too.

The Church is in horrible shape.

Fortunately though, its a bit better because Jim Baker has become a truer witness than ever through being the only dejected christian leader I can think of who has come to terms with being a leader who sinned against the Church. He has displayed repentence, humility and has also received compassion and (re)acceptance - while maintaing humility. His human stature may have been greatly decreased. But in heaven, I am sure he will do fine.

Tammy Fae on the other hand is hanging around and joining in with all sorts of people who relish in their defiance of the Gospel. I've seen her on a few shows and she slips in the word "god" now and then. But I have yet to hear her witness to God's heart and character. I really don't care about her reasons. I've had a hard life - I'd bet harder than hers. But you know what, like Jim Baker, my desire to have integrity in being a representitive of God's Gospel is of utmost important to me and I am terribly ashamed when I show otherwise. Tammy Fae might share this shame for all I know (she certainly ought to) but she's doing nothing about it.

jason

I just wanted to know if anyone knows why Tammy Fae Baker kept her last name, after Jim Baker did all those crazy things.
_cari

i think that tammy faye probably got so caught up in the glory of the glitzy 700 club, that she lost all touch of reality not so unlike jan crouch is doing right now. I think that these women look at theirselves almost like they are the first ladies of religion

I am speaking as someone who has seen their corruption first hand.Having grown up in Charlotte NC, having actually worked as a landscaper at PTl one summer, having been part of a party crowd that their daughter hung out in, having had a girlfriend who lived next door to them for 10 years,having seen Tammy Faye and her crew of flunkies perusing thru Southpark mall with thousands of dollars worth of merchandise just purchased, all I can say is they swindled and cheated THOUSANDS of people out of their life savings, and I'd almost say that they did more damage to Christianity than the Inquisition or the Crusades did.

It doesnt matter what they "intended" to do, they ultimately failed their followers and let the money and power corrupt them. Remember what John Ray said in 1670; "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Just thought I'd point out that Jim and Tammy Fae's last name is spelt "BaKKer!" Two K's, boys and girls!

Also Jim brought HIMSELF down through the double whammy of running a classic pyramid scheme to keep PTL and Heritage USA afloat, AND getting himself involved in a good old-fashioned sex scandal...

As Jimmy Swaggert so famously announced, "I have SINNED!"

Jim and Tammy Faye are crooks. Tammy Faye should have been locked under the cell. Stealing money from the Lord is horrible.

prayer request: hello can you please fast'n pray,intercied for:

I am sure that you all know my little brother,
Matthew, he is 17 and he enjoys racing in motorcross.

I received a phone call on Sunday afternoon as I
walked in the door from church. My little brother had
been in a significant accident and was being air
lifted to Loma Linda Trauma Hospital. Mom and Dad were
stuck in the mountains where he crashed. I had to rush
to the hospital be there.

As I walked in my little brother lay unconscious and
covered in blood. I lost my composure. I was so
absolutely helpless. I could do nothing for him.

The doctors immediatley are working on him as we just
wait.........

The outcome was that he has blood building up on his
brain which was leaking out of his ears. He has
several cracked vertabras in his spine, his sternum is
cracked and has a rip in his lung causing his oxygen
to build up in his chest instead of his lungs, which
is causing swelling, his blood pressure is very high.

What a long night, we sat and prayed through the night
and again this morning. He has been moved and as of
right now is being closely monitored by several
doctors.

I am asking that everyone please say a prayer for Matt
today, he could really use it.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

thanks sincerely,
david m,parker!!!

p.s. can you also please have your family,friends,loved ones,& also your entire church congergation & youth group that you attend too in jesus name ok!!!

F@*k Tammy Faye Bakker! That drag-queen looking whore! She stole money from Jesus, right along with her half-gay ex-husband! She will be the first to pay full recompense to God when it is time for her to answer for her sins. Tammy Faye, you bitch, if you are reading this, you have fuc'd up hair, makeup, teeth, figure, and plastic surgery. Get a make-over, bitch!! That goes for Lisa Marie Presley. If you don't like it, email me at queen_of_bondage_and_domination@yahoo.com...oh yeah...You don't know how to keep your man at home, I can teach you how to do that...

It was fun visiting here. Wishing you a great day! with equanimity opinions: http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Albert_Einstein , Living well and beautifully and justly are all one thing , In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes

I watch the PTL CLUB, I watch people give there last dollar to them, and had nothing to eat because they believe in Jim and Tammy Faye, I just shook my head especially when I seen all the expensive clothes they wore and gold jewerly, and Heritage Village Theme Park was a joke the only reason they made it so they could get more more money so they could have more expenive clothes, cars and jewerly, I seen Tammy faye go into a pity patty party and cry, It was all so fake, it made me want to puke. It all boiled down to both of them being selfess and greedy. She sure didnt wait long after Jim went to jail to get a divorce and marry a rich guy. they say its easier for a poor man to go threw the eye of the needle then a rich man. And now shes trying to make everyone feel sorry for her again with this movie. I wonder how much shes making this time and if shes giving the money to God or going on a shopping spree to buy more make up. Iam not throwing stones, just voicing my oppion thats all. Thank you for listening Zippy