Digital Survivors
 

Hamann-Neo Reloaded Transcript

Scott Manning
August 3, 2003 | Comments (5)

neo-hamann.jpgSome have suggested that he was the previous "One" before Neo. Others think he is just another old man in Zion. Either way, the conversation between Councillor Hamann and Neo on the engineering level gives some food in The Matrix Reloaded.

But the bigger questions arise afterwards: Is Councillor Hamann a previous "One"? It would explain some of his philosophy on life, but it would be hard to believe so since the humans have been fighting the machines for "100 years". And if Hamann is not a previous "One". What is the point of the whole conversation? Just to make us think? I hope there's more to it than that.

Whatever the case, here's the complete transcript of the conversation.

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Councillor Hamann: Care for some company?

Neo: Councillor Hamann.

Councillor Hamann: I don't want to intrude if you prefer to be alone.

Neo: No, I could probably use some company.

Councillor Hamann: Good, so could I. It's nice tonight. Very calm. Feels like everyone's sleeping very peacefully.

Neo: Not everyone.

Councillor Hamann: I hate sleeping. I never sleep more than a few hours. I figure I slept the first 11 years of my life, now I'm making up for it. What about you?

Neo: I just haven't been able to sleep much.

Councillor Hamann: It's a good sign.

Neo: Of what?

Councillor Hamann: That you are, in fact, still human. Have you ever been to the engineering level? I love to walk there at night, it's quite amazing. Would you like to see it?

Neo: Sure.

*Neo and the Councillor walk out onto the engineering level.*

Councillor Hamann: Almost no one comes down here, unless, of course, there's a problem. That's how it is with people - nobody cares how it works as long as it works. I like it down here. I like to be reminded this city survives because of thse machines. These machines are keeping us alive, while other machines are coming to kill us. Interesting, isn't it? Power to give life, and the power to end it.

Neo: We have the same power.

Councillor Hamann: I suppose we do, but down here sometimes I think about all those people still plugged into the Matrix and when I look at these machines, I.. I can't help thinking that in a way, we are plugged into them.

Neo: But we control these machines, they don't control us.

Councillor Hamann: Of course not, how could they? The idea's pure nonsense, but... it does make one wonder just... what is control?

Neo: If we wanted, we could shut these machines down.

Councillor Hamann: Of course... that's it. You hit it! That's control, isn't it? If we wanted, we could smash them to bits. Although if we did, we'd have to consider what would happen to our lights, our heat, our air.

Neo: So we need machines and they need us. Is that your point, Councillor?

Councillor Hamann: No, no point. Old men like me don't bother with making points. There's no point.

Neo: Is that why there are no young men on the Council?

Councillor Hamann: Good point.

Neo: Why don't you tell me what's on your mind, Councillor?

Councillor Hamann: There is so much in this world that I do not understand. See that machine? It has something to do with recycling our water supply. I have absolutely no idea how it works. But I do understand the reason for it to work. I have absolutely no idea how you are able to do some of the things you do, but I believe there's a reason for that as well. I only hope we understand that reason before it's too late.

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Comments (5):
1) Posted by: John
September 6, 2003 8:48 AM

I think that this conversation may provide one of the hints about where the Matrix story is heading. The conversation seems to suggest that humans and machines have some symbiotic relationship with each other and neither can survive without each other. I've seen hints in the Reloaded movie where machines are trying to imbue themselves with human traits, such as the Merovingian and Persphone, possibly trying to gain an understanding of human nature. Incidentially, I think this ties in with Matriculated, the last animated short in the Animatrix, where humans tried to get some of the machines to experience human emotions. There seems to be some thread in the entire Matrix story up to now that suggests that neither humans or machines will defeat each other but for their own mutal survival will need to co-operate. If Neo destroys the Matrix a huge number of persons already hooked in will die and ultimately a large human population of humans outside of the Matrix will be reliant on advanced technology to survive. This theory/musings are reliant on the fact that Neo, et al are outside the Matrix and not part of another Matrix (the false hope theory). Also I've only seen Reloaded and Animatrix once each so maybe incorrect with some of the information I've used. I'd be interested in any comments regarding this.


2) Posted by: Ekin
September 11, 2003 1:49 AM

previous "One" already dead. It have mentioned in the first movie.


3) Posted by: Anthony Rosania
October 4, 2003 11:26 AM

The second movie has me pretty convinced that the humans are still inside the matrix, even within Zion (matrix within a matrix). As evidence of the fact I turn to 1) Smith leaving the matrix, 2) Neo being able to sense the machines on the 'outside', and 3) the Architect's discussion with Neo. The architect basically tells Neo the same thing that Smith told Morpheus in the first movie, except he adds yet one more incarnation of the matrix to the story. The architect implies that event he 20th century earth version failed and they had to build a third one. Basically they had to build a matrix where there was 'something more' beyond the 20th century earth. I think that Hamann is most likely an AI construct, and was never noticed by Neo before because for some reason Neo wasn't able to notice he was in an 'outer matrix' prior to his discussion with the architect.
The interesting question then actually is the same question from the first movie, which is: "what is the matrix?" The fact that the world of Zion is still a matrix brings into question all of the history we've seen in the movies, as well as the "Animatrix". In other words, it could all be a lie. Frankly, one of the things that always disturbed me about the first movie is the scientific flaw of using humans for energy when there is no sunlight, because they never really deal with the problem of where they get the energy to keep the humans alive. From a scientific point of view, it would be more efficient to use the energy they are using to power the matrix to power their computers, rather than basically lose energy in the effort of powering the matrix. Granted this is science fiction, but even science fiction generally tries to stay within the bounds of real science as much as possible.
So the question is why are the machines keeping humans alive? Or even better, are there any humans at all? Perhaps the whole thing is a giant program. One of my own theories is that humans built the matrix in order to escape some post-apocolypic scenario and programmed the machines to create a paradise for them. That failed, and the machines are now simply doing their best to comply with their programming. I feel that a theory along those lines goes along with what the oracle says. However, it is merely conjecture.

Anthony


4) Posted by: David Gordon
November 11, 2003 8:40 PM

Whether Zion is a construct of an outer 'meta' Matrix does not impact the storyline whatsoever, and for this reason I think it's more likely that in a rigid 'science-fiction' sense it's true.
The point is, does it really matter where you live your life if your definition of reality is misinformed? Consider an individual who is born, lives and dies in the Matrix. They experience emotion (remember the Merovingian's first speech), they create art, they fall in love and then they die. Having never broken through the meniscus of the Matrix they are none the wiser that their meaning of the word 'reality' (listen to the Indian guy in Revolutions) differs from that of a Zion human, within the realm of their own experience.
But if Zion were real, surely Zion's inhabitants would have got their hands on the true meaning of reality? Well, the Architect's suggestion neatly removes that rug from beneath the Zion-realist.
To complicate matters further, we have the notion introduced more forcefully in Revolutions that programs are capable, in some sense, of experiencing something analogous to our own emotions (although Persephone has difficulty bridging the gap between human and machine 'love'). The Wachowskis are playing with our concept of reality on two levels here - on one hand, we are asked what reality itself is, and on the other we are challenged by the nature of what we ourselves would ground reality in, our ability to experience our very lives.
What if the whole thing were a computer simulation, us moviegoers included? If that were the case, you would be forced to argue for your own reality in the face of nihilism (the doctrine that nothing has value, all meanings are baseless and knowledge can never be attained).
Some brain-candy for you:
In mathematics, a point is infinitesimally small. It has no length, area or volume and occupies no space. In a sense, it's 0-dimensional. Go up a dimension and we have a line, but it's infinitely thin, it still occupies no space. Go up another dimension and we have a plane, but it's still flat. It only has a magnitude of any sort in two dimensions and none in the third, but it still occupies no space. So, onto the third dimension and we have a cube. What reason have we to believe that this should occupy any space, given that it may well be flat in the fourth dimension (add in time and you still have the problem of the fifth, but lets stick at four). So, how are you going to prove to me that you exist, given that we all might well be infinitely thin and therefore nonexistant?


5) Posted by: Travis
November 14, 2003 9:12 PM

"I have absolutly no idea how you do some of the things you do" i think is a clue to this matrix that hamann in the movie had maybe seen the first one or like the source said there was 5 matrix's and i think that hamann seen another the "One" of them and has been faced with a decision...to try and give Neo a hint and tell him that he has to find out what his reason is and before it is to late for zion will be destroyed.


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