Whichever teachers you asked need to be fired, and fast.

Anyhow, you're simplifying things considerably when stating material shortage as the sole reason for Hitler's inability to gain a nuclear weapon. Your own (American, that is) intelligence gathering mission "Alsos" later recovered the notes of most scientists involved in the project, and it's obvious that their understanding of the task at hand was severely lacking. It would have taken them years to build a weapon even if they had everything they needed.

-Dex

haha,
dude ur really funny! if i go and say lets burn down the white house which is responsible for the deaths pf thousands of US and other citizens, you would call me a terrorist.
I hope you start thinking for urself for a change. take care bro

RE: if i go and say lets burn down the white house which is responsible for the deaths pf thousands of US and other citizens, you would call me a terrorist.

Depending on your motive, you're either a terrorist or just a nutjob.

I hope to Never say: "My minds made-up, don't confuse me with the facts!" Of course we have "factoids," conclusions based on facts and/or factoids, and so on. In this case--WMD? At various times throughout history: the knife, the bow, the catapult, the gun, the grenade, the canon, and so forth, were all--at one time--considered "WMDs." Let's see! Whom coined, propagated, and propagandized this WMD theory (formerly MAD) and why? And so as to not get "jerked around" by my own miseducation (and this is universal) and to keep a sound mind, I prefer to see many concepts or subjects (especially war) in the fashion of viewing an over-extended Comic Strip.

This device helps, not only in keeping the horrors less personal, but also serves the function of an ever flourishing imagination, allowing room for some possible independent thinking. Without this independent thinking we are--as Einstein said: "...More resembling a well trained dog." If one is strongly inclined to consider themselves as Republican or Democrat, it's sad (if you cannot laugh) expecially with todays' continuiation of "...wars and rumors of wars." So, I'll like a dog with a new trick, attempt to stand on my hind-legs for as long as possible.

It is elsewhere discussed, cussed, and forumed-- How could have Hitler have won the war? Churchill (a "warmonger" says Hitler) was truly frightened by Germany's expansions by Blitz. He wanted to make the enemy the Giant, whose threat had no equal. The V Rockets, the new Jets, the new technologies in toto, all make his fears of WMD real. Heck the whole German War Machine in 1939 was itself a WMD. So, as to protect himself and the Brits, rather than acquiesce to a non-aggression with Hitler (Hess, etc.), Churchill (who was not elected for a second term), chose to make Hitler and not the Bear the beast to be feared. The comic strip is futher entertaining by the fact that only 2 weeks after Germany attacked W. Poland, Russia attacked E. Poland. Why not declare war on Russia as well; they too violated the Pact with Britian and France?

The Comic Strip is not just read horizontally but also vertically--kind of like looking at a large Sunday's crossword puzzle. Yet it's still in the funny papers. People are dying by the minute; but human nature as it is, it's still funny. So as to initially get elected this "warmongering" Churchill talked a "very bad game." To keep himself in the game, he immediately began "begging" FDR for a "lend-lease" and so on. He got his wish despite the US being largely pacificist or atleast neutral. This strategy also soon bennefited Russia. And it can be argued that due to Churchill's efforts alone, in the early going, gave the victory to the Allies. Any testament, speech, book, etc. of Hitler declared or intimated total world domination. Of course he wanted to make and break treaties at his fancy. The world got wise.

It is at this time c.1940, that the funny little man with the half mustache, was causing men to shake and tremble in their boots! Never forget this. It's an inherent part of the comic strip. All this fear occuring even before any other fears or considerations of an "Atomic Bomb." US's Manhatton Project didn't begin until mid 1942. But boy what a project. Set in three primary locations, employing some 125,000 people (larger than GM), costing some 30 billion in today's dollars, succeeded in reacting a stock-pile of enough fissionable material (U-235), to test and utilize this A-Bomb over what we now know as Hiroshima in June (mid 1945). That's 3 full years: from conception to the "big'bang" immediately killing @ 100,000 known civilians, in this relatively tranquil city in Japan. I was somewhat surprised to discover that Russia and Japan were attempting their "enrichments" certainly by '44.

Such enrichments of U238 to the necessary fissionable U235 takes much time and effort--even today! It requires a large industry all it's own. You might equate the small steps Iran is now infamously taking to enrich U238, to what all the major WW2 combatents were pursuing fevorioushly toward war's end. For ease of comparison (remember I'm still precariously standing on two hind legs), to make a simple (controlled) nuclear powerplant the refinement of U is only @ 15-20%. For the big distructive blast the refinement must rise to atleast 80% pure U. Of course Murphy's Law is always inherent in such enterprises, thus we see accidents in the US (ie. Ohio), in Russia (Chernoybl), etc.

The "Hard Water" as Scott quite rightly spelled out the importance of, was pursued in one Norwegian factory for normal distillation processes, yet the Germans' refitted the site for hard water. You might say this Hard H2O is necessary and nearly indespensible to the whole process of making/helping the neuclear reaction take place, acting as a catylist in the reaction if you will. For brevity sake, for Germany to know this, they knew the rest. I now am on only one leg--let me regain my balance.

In 1938 a nuclear fission was demonstrated and patented in Germany. On 2 Aug.'39 Einstein wrote the now famous letter to FDR warning him of the destructive potential of the recently theorized Bomb. To paraphrase: he said the weapon striking a major port would not only anniliate the entire port but also take with it a considerable amount of surrounding terroritory, but he considered the bomb itselt too large and cumbersome (as yet) to be brought by air transport. I'm on two legs again! And, in 1941 another patent draft was registered in Germany for Plutoniun (highly enriched U).

One is aware of the infinite quibble that continues to take place as to when, why, how, who, and so on, as to what country is at what stage in its' discovery and possible successfull delivery of said Bomb. Some of the quibble may be reduced historically by fact, factoid, and inference. Many (including a Russian spy)witnessed "small" nuclear explosions in both the Thurgic area (concentration camp site) and in the Baltic Sea (isle of Rugex). Several hundred innocents died therein, even though it was only a hybred tactical neuclear weapon. Moreover, the witnesses easily recalled the sudden light, wind, and radio active isotopes were subsequently discovered at those sites. These were done in early March '45. Although time was winding down rapidly Japan (on its' crusers) and Germany (on its' subs) had working prototypes of nuclear propulsion plants. Of course these being of the lightly refined U as previously mentioned. Hitler did have "dirty bombs" (radiation only) ready but feared the wind so to speak. He also opted not to use nerve gas. Some "carry-over" fear from WW1 here it is thought.

Well, if Hitler was so smart why didn't they have the Bomb first? As we look about the comic strip puzzle, we find equivalent folly in other aspects of Hitler's Germany (emphasis on Hitler's). This ties in with some of the funnier aspects of the puzzle. Einstein (a Jew) was smart. Shortly after the initial Pogroms (~Jew hating parties, book burnings, glass breaking, etc.), Albert took his egress to the US in '33 the year Hitler really began his hold on Germany. But never forget, all Adolf had to do is hold onto all those holding him aloft. Within a few months all the laws were in place to rid Germany forever of the Jew.

Even though the Jews were hardly 1% of the population, they were very prominent in all the professions and were a clear majority in the field of theoretical physics. Perhaps the known capacity of making such a bomb (and powerplants) spread so rapidly is that the scientific community has a much different mind-set than politicians and generals. They relish in their findings, enjoy publishing in Journals, etc. Werner Heisenberg discovered nuclear fission and headed the German nuclear project. Otto Hahn and Neils Bohr were also very prominent here especially since so few were engaged in the "project." Oppinheimer (sp?) "Oppie" also left Germany and eventually headed the successful Manhatton Project but soon (after the two big ones over Japan) had his security clearance pulled. US feared he still had sympathies with Germany.

Anyhow it's common knowledge Hitler refered to such nuclear matters as "Jewish Science." Well, he was right. Hitler however did see some possibilities but, time was running out. He felt spending time and money on such a large project would take supplies from the front. True it would! The German Project centered in one average sized city never was put under the Dept. of the Army. I remained something auxillary to the University academic department of theoretical physics. It was argued that a tactical nuclear weapon would slow the Russians. But Hitler's arguement won out.

Hitler wanted full implementation of the V Rocket projects. Something he knew worked and worked now. Von Braun headed these V projects (V1-V7). And he has some advice on the newly designed long-range bomber to deliver the A Bomb when and if completed in time. It looks similar to what we now use for the space shuttle. Also, remember, Von Braun ultimately headed up our NASA taking the first man to the moon in 1969. One needs only to look up "Operation Paperclip" to ascertain he was one of some 300 German scientists to "pick their brains" and pick we did! Heisenberg and Von Braun were eventually Nazi's themselves, but were very unentheusiastic about their membership. Remember they were scientists of the highest order, not Jew haters by profession. Von Braun was only known to have worn his Nazi uniform on one occassion.

One can't help but wonder if the resources gone to the Vengence Rocket program were spent on a Army sponsored Nuclear Progran instead, would Germany have been first to have the A Bomb?

Did they have all the ingredients? The Hard Water wasn't necessary from Norwegian soil, Germany had several other better places of their own to distill for this. The uraniun they had and that they got from Africa, the US would have like to have had. The distilliation to Hard Water like Uranium is relatively simple. But it does take much time. Known processes have to be repeated over and over a thousand times you see. And time was becoming the most precious commodity. An interesting aside, Himmler told his personal physician in March '45 (Russia 40 miles from Berlin) "Any day now we will have a bomb a thousand times more powerful than anyone has ever seen and the war will be over in a matter of days." Well, the two huge explosions on March 3 did occur yet, they were puny compared to what Truman allowed to be dropped over Japan.

Also after the war beginning July 15, for 6 months the Allies had a select group of German scientists, to include Heisenberg, housed at an estate called Farm Hall. Listening devices (bugs) were everywhere, to ascertain what else the Germans' knew! The last month of the war (May) the Allies found what they called a "small crude nuclear reactor in a German city. But sophisticated enough for their puny but successfull trials. Nothing near as large as US's trial at Bikini. But again, if Hitler had prioritized the A provect over the V provect, you can guess my hypothesis. This hypothesis may not be experimented with or proven in arrears. So, I am still standing on just two hind legs.

Needless to say Cold War Espionage went into a frenzy immediately after the war. And of course there are many other usable radioactive materials today and a whole lot of atomic piles around the world. Espionage for refining radioactive mateials had never stopped. We are still "MAD" about WMD!

Iran is now the fixation for their "attempts" at WMD (Atom Bomb). Oh, it's just for a nuclear reactor for cheaper electric power they say, not for a tactical WMD weapon. Hey Israel has one. Yea, but their the good guys, the Jews. Hey Russia has one (countless ones), but their the big guys. Hey N. Korea has one and braggs about it, yea but they have called our bluff. Hey, China has a lot too, yea but they also have an Army of 200 million, better hush. Hey Cuba had some, well we too care of these. Hey Britian has some, but they were an Ally. Hey but Germany has some, and they lost the war. Yea but they too are one of the good guys.

Well what the heck--Who Says? Extend the comic strip puzzle. It's like Wyatt Earp Sheriff of Dodge City. He says remove yer guns before entering! Expecially so if your a Clambitt, a Younger, or Billy the Kid. Hey isn't discrimination fun this was? It's plum hilarious!
Unless your the one who has to remove your gun. But Whatt, my gun won't even shoot. You see I have only the butt and revolver, no barell, no bullets. No matter says Mr. Earp, in Dodge City it's still a WMD!

OK you now have the logic or the joke. Now bring it home. The country with the most WMDs is the most to be despised, to be sanctioned, to be ostracised from the more civilized world commununity, and so on. So let's see. It's as simple as looking in the mirror. Mr. Bush doesn't have to look under the rugs of Afghanastan or Iraq. Nor has he to painstaikingly determine all the quadrants of any Iranian facility to vaporize any WMDs with US WMDs. Or need he target any other WMD suspects. All he needs to do is ask Cheney, Rumsfeld, the new CIA General, or Ms. Rice and he'll find thousands of them--right here! In Dodge City. Of course safely behind locked doors and in the jail house. And only for use when bad guys come into town like a "Jap." Hey but don't the Japanese have hundreds of WMDs? Will you hush! They could price their cars and trucks so high we won't need any more oil! Aw shucks, then what will we be fight'n for?

So there you have it. The US has become like Dodge City. Bush its' Earp. At least Earp could shoot straight! But it's still favorable territory for making windstorms and tornadoes. In which direction is Buch blowing now. Hey--let's set up more windmills with all this hot air goin' around. We need to tap into all available underutilized rescouces we can. Imagine the productive capacity of thousands of windmills around DC!

Or less funny and more sadly, how much oil or alternative energy could be brought to bare with the 250 Billion spent just in the last few years looking for WMD--here and there. When people think of WMD, they think of kaboom. The most dangerous WMD is a 1/2 watt, 8 hz, human brain functioning at only a double digit capacity! How does such a brain give off enough light to even read by. Simple with enough mirrors and other bright yet misbegotten puppeteers to reflect their light and obfuscate the entire background with smoke so any onlookers cannot see behind the fog. Once a great philosopher was asked what was his profoundest fear. He said his greatest fear was ignorance. "Ignorance is frightening!"

As originally mentioned, forget the idyllics/idolotry of republican or democratic (whether used in upper or lower case or however painted red or blue. We'd best be constantally viligent of whose really in charge and alter (counter or appease) accordingly. Such ignorance you see has forever been and will forever be in accord with any style or brand of government. Always consider when you hear of a foreign enemy, whether person or country (usually both), and you think you know exactly who they are and what they are up to--how would you know? Germany's high technology of propaganada has been nearly perfected. You opinion is subject to change nearly overnight. Our enemies (the enemies provided to us) can change with the next 6 o'clock or newspaper headline.

Use the imagination the comic strip puzzle should have provided you. If Israel now had no WMD, would the US provide them? Don't let labels bestir and confuse you (it's rep. or dem. all overagain) a trap of labels. Don't consider being antisemite or prosemite. Prohuman is infinitely preferable. The planned Nazi bomber capable of making a return flight to and from NY was called the Amerika. This was Hitler's favorite target (DC being second). He wanted to fell that tall town--what he called "Jew York." He also refered to the US as a "Jew Democracy." The truth of his words notwithstanding, if he had added the Jews to the Reich arsenal instead of subtracting them (with much cost and distraction)--the Germans win by '42.

The poor genius became terminally poisened by his own hate. When Mr. Jackson absentmindedly refered to NY as "hymetown," over a decade ago--do you remember the damage-control he attempted. He never rebounded. You see the US Census has had NY at @ 75% of the aforementioned race. Jesse was without mercy hammered (in the press) for his oversight--however true his words. One of Hitler's first Acts/Statutes was to take-over the press, radio, TV, and most magazines. Again, he lost all sense of priorities. His senses again, poisened--just as sure as the arsenic that expedited his death. The poison of hatred, would surely have killed him anyway. His last written word was "Jew." In his last political testament 2 days before the gun--he warned the world of the "international Jew." Isn't it Biblical that "Hate doth consumeth a man?" So, like I began--give humor it's due! There are "lies and damned lies!"

The whole tapestry of war, its' warp and weft of lies and deceit is omnipresent and can nowadays be used with astonishing speed and perfection. If we were suddenly apprised of it all at once we would surely be "shocked and awed" at our naiveness. Most sadly, there is still a growing trend/feeling even within our boarders of being pecked and pawed by our own dirty institutions!

Churchill coined the term "iron curtain," nearly all the noncommunistic world decried the Berlin Wall, Kennedy and Reagan spoke eloquently against the wall. Well what does the US do in its' infinite wisdom. Attempt to build a 750 mile wall between the US and Mexico. Another strope of genius for our current "double digit."
I happened to help build a portion of this ugly and disdainfull wall. Estimating the length of wall we completed (we were told we exceeded the average speed) and dividing into the total cost of getting us there, etc., our portion cost @ $1,000. per linear foot. The wall varies from 10-18 feet. Figuring roughly (you may help) that will be just under 4 billion for the 750 mile (mostly steel) wall! What's 4 billion but 6 more weeks in Iraq.

Still using our humor, why not catch each illegal immigrant and give a sentence of 6 months to work on the wall for free. Now there are now @5,000 full time Border Patrol police (mostly Spanish)(been there-done that)add @6,000
more National Guard troops. This = 11,000. full-time personnel to guard this/our territory. Now, the four major states boardering Mexico, all claim together many more "arrests" (of Mexicans) than these 6,000. It's estimated they keep, catch, or simply turn back about 1 million Mexicans a year! You do the math.

This is whosale ignorance but is in keeping with the ignorance of the current neverending "War." How would Hitler handle the "crisis?" A few German divisions, in a week or two would slow down the torrent of illegals to a trickle. This would have been done even before the Vietnam War. We are handling the War on Terror as ignorantly as we are not-handling the illegal immigrants. Anything is preferable to an ugly wall. This does something horrible to the social-psychology of both countries.

Why not built a 750 mile Rail-Road track instead. I could be accomplished with no more men and money that we are currently spending on a monstrosity! It would have infinitely more utility than the wall could extend rail traffic all accross 4 stated. It could be used also as a good-will gesture toward Mexico for their toll also. Having been there, the up and down nature of the terrain makes for visibility @ 1/4 mile. Use our military, not to needlessly destroy 3rd. world cities. Use our military planes, tanks, bombs, etc. to improve a leveling of the terrain for a much more appealing and usefull Rail Road! Consider the RRs utility post Katrina and its' botched evacuation. Consider the fuel savings of people who often travel interstate. Consider the range of visibility @ 10 miles. With night vision still @ 10 miles. No planes really necessary. Many trains may run at once either on double-track, turn-around spurs, and loading and unloading stations. But how can one convey a 10 mile visibility concept to some who can't see 10 feet. The running cost of these 11,000 persons over and indefinate period of time, while building a horrid wall at $1,000. linear foot, will be a sight, albeit horrible, to behold and witness. This concept of Railroading, may as well be expanded throught our country. Electric locomotives are very impressive and quiet. The ramifications of a Boarder Railroad are fascinating to me and a little ingenuity and resourcefullness is all that is necessary for implementation. Also fewer kids will die. And oh, how I miss the little cabooses!

Finally, US and Russia would have met head-on eventually. Hitler always thought so. If only they came to loggerheads sooner. Remember Stalin invaded E. Poland just 2 weeks after Hitler invaded from W. Poland. A lot did hinge on Churchill. He really didn't lie. Hitler was an emmense and real threat. But, Churchill could have spared his citizenry countless deaths by accepting some neutrality agreement. Who knows maybe Hitler would have settled for 15 more time-zones for his German living-space (liebensraum). His hate more heavily laid on the Bear not only because of Bolshevism, but also due to their higher number of Jews. For example, Lenin was a Jew. A real paradise for Hitler here. And too, he felt some sympatico for England as they were the most Aryan/Nordic of all--next to Germany.

Futhermore a two generational Cold War (with US) could have been avoided with just a one year win over Russia by Germany. Would Hitler have been appeased with all this new living space--an even greater Germany? Who knows? But, we wouldn't have had Kruschev banging the heel of his shoe on the table at the United Nations saying: "We will bury you!" All refering to the United States. Remember at this time the US and USSR had a parity of WMD. Kennedy took things to a new pitch in '63 with the Cuban Missle Crisis. They say any real atomic conflagration would have ended with MAD (mutually assured destruction)--na, one side would have won. They weren't the only two players in town. Just the biggest. One parting question so I can quit wabbling trying to keep my balance on two legs: Would you rather have been overtaken by Russia with Stalin or by Germany with Hitler? Don't forget that neither Stalin or Hitler would live forever! And also don't forget that Hitler's Germany and war machine was a Weapon of Mass Destruction for several years. After the two A bombs on Japan the US had four more left. Truman told a killer lie. He said another 1/2 million troops will die to end this war conventionally, many of his own generals told him it would save only about 20,000. Japan is an island, they could have been sanctioned and/or starved into surrendering. Yet the Bombs did keep Russia from claiming any victory from the North of Japan. Don't ever forget the Comic Strip never ends! Hey, wonder what Iran would do if we nuked their little atomic pile?

Hitler's scientists had the long-range bomber to fly over NY and return. The "dirty bomb" they had to some degree. This type bomb detonated via c-4, gunpowder, etc. would expell radiation w/o the atomic blast. Don't know why they didn't use it. They also had harnessed fission or fussion atomic reactions controlled to the extent to power their submarines. They never figured how to nuclear power planes.

I'm also a believer that they would have had the atomic bomb if Hitler had put the research under their War Dept. early on... Who knows? The some 300 Operation Paperclip scientists exported along with others that were spared the Nurenburg Trials spoke about such things here and there. My impression is they had some little things going on suggesting a know how. It was revealed that they needed much more Uranium thus Plutoniun to make the bomb really effective as the USs.

G'day guys,

I've finally managed to sit down and gather research material on the German 'Atomic Bomb'. While I haven't read the moutains of material on the subject(and believe me there is mountains of it going back to the original debriefig transcripts of 1945),there is one critical thing I have in mind. No matter how advanced the Germans were in the development of new weapons technologies, they were way behind in atomic bomb development and were perhaps three to five years away from the development of a Hiroshima type weapon.

Quite simply the Manhattan project which was the single greatest and most costly weapo development of the war was set up with the sole intention of developing an atomic bomb, and employed over 120,000 people during the course of it's development. The project required the investmet of billions of dollars and successfully culminated in the construction and detonation of three atomic devices.
In cotrast the German programme was never set up with the sole intention of developing an atomic bomb, though some German scientists did recognize the possibilities of such a weapon. The main problem with the German efforts was the miniscule amount of funding, the decision to downgrade or cancel weapons projects with little prospect of completion by the end of 1942, the puny number of scientists and physicists(literally a few dozen in number)involved and the fact all research was not unified, unlike the Manhattan Project. The main programme under Dr. Werner Heisenberg was run by the army, and if anyone was less efficient in weapon development that the Luftwaffe, it was the army. And of course there were 'private teams' carrying out seperate research, primarily Kurt Diebner's team, which supposedly detonated a dirty bomb in March 1945. Given the possibility rather than the probability that Diebner's team succeeded, the answer still remains the same, the Germans were well behind Allied (American) development, and a deployable nuclear device of any type was still a long way from fruition.

Having said all this, the possibility the Germans may have been able to deploy dirty bombs sooner rather than later was very high indeed. Explosive devices, as muted by some people, of around the 1KT range would have been just as costly and difficult to manufacture as a Hiroshima style weapon and of course there was the problem of delivery in an environment where Allied air power enjoyed complete air supremacy.

These are just a few thoughts and I'm sure with the amount of material now available opinion will swing back and forth on this subject.

Regards Bob.

Joe, I presume the aircraft you are talking of is the Junkers Ju-390 long range maritime/reconnaissance/bomber as this is the only aircraft that flew to within sight of new York city. Like all German development of heavy bombers, the Ju-390, Me-264 and He-177 were cancelled in late 1944 due to the lack of precious metals, fuel and the chaos that reigned in the various German weapon development programmes at the time. So by war's end there virtually wasn't a bomber left to lift an atomic bomb(if they had one)as all German aircraft development was focused on fighters or fighter bombers.
Only one variant of the Me-264 flew and this version was anaerodynamic test bed. There were several development proposals for long range bomber variants with numerable engine combinations. Possibly the Me-264E powered by six BMW801TG radial engines would have been the culmination of these plans.
While the He-177 was a dead duck by war's end, it was Germany's only heavy bomber to see combat and though it still had the distressing habit of catching fire on occasion it was quite a credible bomber when it was used in formations of up to one hundred aircraft. Supposedly one He-177 was discovered in Prague at the end of the war, being stripped down before conversion to carry an atomic bomb. This is doubtful due to the lack of an atomic bomb for some time and I believe this aircraft was probably being reconfigured for a new engine layout.
Regards Bob.