Digital Survivors
It is currently Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:04 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

Did Buchanan Plagiarize this Map of Germany After Versailles?
Yes. He should have credited Martin Gilbert for the inspiration 80%  80%  [ 8 ]
No. There are enough differences in the two maps that it is not plagiarism. 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
Middle ground. It's not quite plagiarism, but he should have credited Martin Gilbert for the inspiration. 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 10
Author Message
 Post subject: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 6452
Location: Philly
Did Buchanan Plagiarize this Map of Germany After Versailles? You be the judge.

In Patrick J. Buchanan's Churchill, Hitler, and the "Unnecessary War", he uses a map (Buchanan, p. 82) to show how Germany was carved up after the Treaty of Versailles. There is another map (Gilbert, p. 144) in a book by Martin Gilbert that appears very similar.

Similarities

  • Similar topic: "Germany After Versailles" and "Germany in Defeat" both showing how Germany was carved up after World War I.
  • Same region focus
  • Same key in the mid-left region to show "Principal German Losses". Wording and terminology is the same.
  • Same key on the lower right-hand side. Buchanan even uses the same coloring method. Solid color for territory lost, stripes for territory retained, and territory retained with no fortifications
  • The same cities and regions all have sub-text. In some cases, it's the exact same text.

Buchanan's map is first. Gilbert's map is second. Click the pictures for a larger size.
Image

Image

References
Buchanan, Patrick J. Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War". New York: Crown Publishing Group, 2008.

Gilbert, Martin. The Routledge Atlas of the First World War, 2nd ed. New York: Routledge, 2002.

_________________
"Historians are dedicated to controversy as a way of life." - John Keegan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 6452
Location: Philly
Something that should be considered when looking at these two maps is the Introduction and Preface to Martin Gilbert's book.

The Introduction was written by Field-Marshal Montgomery back in 1970.
Quote:
The idea of teaching history by a series of maps was new to me until Martin Gilbert's historical atlas of British history had come my way. I was at once intensely interested and later studied those of other countries and nations which he published. Such historical facts cannot fail to be of real value to students in schools and universities; they would look through a window, as it were, at the subject before getting down to a details study-which is, of course, essential.


The Preface is written by Martin Gilbert in which he states the following.
Quote:
The principal books upon which I have drawn for both facts and ideas are listed in the bibliography at the end of the volume.

_________________
"Historians are dedicated to controversy as a way of life." - John Keegan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 1:01 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Baton Rouge
I've gone back and forth between the maps several times. There is no question that the map was inspired/copied. When dealing with borders and region focus, it's tough to find a unique way to draw a map, but Buchanan uses virtually the same text and same colors. He should have cited his source for the map.

Scott, does Buchanan make any mention of Gilbert's atlas book? Do any of the Gilbert books referenced by Buchahan have similar maps?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:34 am 
Offline
evil-monger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:24 pm
Posts: 2349
Location: Bay Area, California
This one's worse than the first. Even the bullets are the same for the most part. Horrible.

_________________
"You also must appreciate...that you are neither facing individuals or organizations, but are facing a Jihad awakening and renaissance which is shaking the pillars of the entire Islamic world; and this is the fact which you and your government and country refuse to recognize and pretend not to see."
- Ayman al-Zawahiri's November 2008 message to President-Elect Obama


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:35 pm
Posts: 6423
Again, this is just like the last one. Did he probably use it as a reference? lol most likely. But they are not identical, their are tons of differences in the 2 beyond the obvious total difference in quality. It's just not enough to win a case in court over plagiarism.

He obviously should have referenced the guy, but he didn't and no one can prove 100% that he copied him due to the large quantity of differences.

This isn't much different then 99% of "reports" written by college students. They all find other works and change things around enough so it isn't a copy.

_________________
Rockford wrote:
It's almost like Sent or Soroz is going to infect you over the computer and win the battle and sway the DS Forums to side with them and then we gang rape your family gerbil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 6452
Location: Philly
Jennifer wrote:
Scott, does Buchanan make any mention of Gilbert's atlas book? Do any of the Gilbert books referenced by Buchahan have similar maps?

Yes. He listed the First World War Atlas book by Gilbert and Churchill: A Life in the bibliography. Throughout the book, Buchanan cited Churchill: A life giving the page numbers to where he quoted text. The maps have no type of notation whatsoever of where the information came from.

_________________
"Historians are dedicated to controversy as a way of life." - John Keegan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did Buchanan Copy this Map of Germany After Versailles?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 9946
I voted yes again. Lol maybe this guy Buchanan picked up a copy of Gilbert's book, thought to himself well shit I can probably put together a book of my own, I suck at map drawing so I'll just copy these and add a few different details and change a few font styles around and nobody will know. SCOTT MANNING KNOWS!

Maybe they are related.

_________________
Richard Pryor wrote:
"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Xaphos © 2007, 2008 phpBB.fr