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 Post subject: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:02 pm 
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If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?

Not enough. Or at least not as much as we were getting before the war.

Those who claim the Iraq War is only about oil make it sound like U.S. troops are extracting oil directly from the veins of Iraqi babies and pumping it into my car. If it were that simple, then why have gas prices risen so steadily? I just paid $38.85 to fill up my Honda Civic.

The response you hear is something about the oil companies gouging everyone at the gas pump. The oil companies defend themselves with a bunch ofmumbo-jumbo concerning supply, demand, lack of refineries, and less sources for oil.

Here are the facts:

  • The U.S. gets less oil today from Iraq than before 9/11
  • The largest source of crude oil for the United States is the United States
  • Iraq has never represented more than 4.5% of crude oil used in the United States
  • The United States' dependence on foreign oil has increased, but the amount of oil from the Persian Gulf has decreased

Continue reading...

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:09 pm 
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You can thank the liberal democrats for this one. All their enviro crap, refusing to allow new refineries to be built, and refusing to allow us to drill for our own oil all contribute to much higher fuel prices.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:54 am 
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You realize oil companies are posting Record profits after expenses right? This isn't a supply issue. They are purposefully making less oil to drive up the price. Once again, blame the Democrats for everything. Do you think the Oil companies would behave any differently if the oil came from Alaska? A commodity this important needs to be taken out of the hands of private groups.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:27 am 
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Faithdies wrote:
You realize oil companies are posting Record profits after expenses right? This isn't a supply issue. They are purposefully making less oil to drive up the price. Once again, blame the Democrats for everything. Do you think the Oil companies would behave any differently if the oil came from Alaska? A commodity this important needs to be taken out of the hands of private groups.

This is a slightly different topic and I'll cover how the Oil companies are not trying to gouge you at the pump. The oil companies don't "make oil"; they refine it. They're still buying the oil pumped out of the ground from governments/companies or they're paying for the right to pump it themselves.

There is plenty of oil coming in. If you read the article, you'd see that the amount of crude oil coming into the U.S. has been steadily increasing every year. The point of the article is that the amount of crude oil coming from the Persian Gulf / Iraq has been decreasing.

Image

Check the article for sources of the chart.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:46 am 
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Faithdies wrote:
You realize oil companies are posting Record profits after expenses right? This isn't a supply issue. They are purposefully making less oil to drive up the price. Once again, blame the Democrats for everything. Do you think the Oil companies would behave any differently if the oil came from Alaska? A commodity this important needs to be taken out of the hands of private groups.


The reason oil prices are so high right now is twofold - one, the dollar is weak, and oil is only tradable in dollars. Two, there have been supply issues. The latest spike is the result of drilling issues in Nigeria. When there are supply issues, people freak out and the price goes up. We bring up a reliable new stream of oil from Alaska and we help to reduce the uncertainty from supply issues. The price stabilizes or goes down.

Drill in ANWR. And quit with your commie talk.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:08 am 
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Brian wrote:
The reason oil prices are so high right now is twofold - one, the dollar is weak, and oil is only tradable in dollars. Two, there have been supply issues. The latest spike is the result of drilling issues in Nigeria. When there are supply issues, people freak out and the price goes up. We bring up a reliable new stream of oil from Alaska and we help to reduce the uncertainty from supply issues. The price stabilizes or goes down.

Drill in ANWR. And quit with your commie talk.

QFT


The big reason prices are so high right now is because the demand has increased very rapidly in the last few years and the supply has increased much more slowly. If prices didn't go up, we would have shortages, plain and simple. If anyone doesn't understand this bit of basic economics I'll be happy to 'splain it to them.


Faithdies wrote:
A commodity this important needs to be taken out of the hands of private groups.


Wrong. A commodity this important needs to be kept out of the hands of government.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:20 am 
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AramAyn wrote:
Faithdies wrote:
A commodity this important needs to be taken out of the hands of private groups.


Wrong. A commodity this important needs to be kept out of the hands of government.

Seriously. It's amazing to me that someone would want the same government that can't deliver letters on time to take control of a global business such as oil/gas.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 pm 
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Mr. Manning, you are a stinking Dallas fan. Now that I have that out of the way...

You've done a lot of in-depth research that seems to check out when I view your sources, but I don't think this proves what you think it proves. It appears that the amount of crude oil imported from Iraq and the Persian Gulf has gone down, because we have begun to suck them dry. So we are decreasing our dependence on foreign Middle Eastern oil, but only because we've used it all.

The question still remains that if Iraq and the region are not providing as much oil as earlier in this decade, then why does the U.S. persist to push this war? It makes the theory that George W Bush is as dumb as he looks to sounds more true.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:24 pm 
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I really hate not being able to argue politics here. Really, really hate it.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Tiny Stump wrote:
Mr. Manning, you are a stinking Dallas fan. Now that I have that out of the way...

You've done a lot of in-depth research that seems to check out when I view your sources, but I don't think this proves what you think it proves. It appears that the amount of crude oil imported from Iraq and the Persian Gulf has gone down, because we have begun to suck them dry. So we are decreasing our dependence on foreign Middle Eastern oil, but only because we've used it all.

The question still remains that if Iraq and the region are not providing as much oil as earlier in this decade, then why does the U.S. persist to push this war? It makes the theory that George W Bush is as dumb as he looks to sounds more true.


They are not "running out" of oil in the mid east. The supply to the U.S. from the mid east has decreased but that is more due to the fact that China is now buying a larger portion of the oil pumped out. It is because of this that we are getting more oil from other places that we either didn't buy from or didn't buy as much from previously.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Do you honestly not realize that the war in the nation of iraq is affecting the oil exports from the nation of iraq.

Take a look at the major exports in europe before WW2 and during/right afterwards, I would also bet that they weren't "producing" goods at their previous rates.

Most of the information about Iraqi oil fields are based on projections from decades ago. Many geologists believe that the current estimated iraqi oil reserve, 110 bbl, is grossly under estimated. A large group has speculated that there could be between an additional 100-200bbl in that uncharted territory.

If the smaller end of the spectrum were true it would put iraq into the top echelon of oil producing countries. If the higher end of the spectrum were true it would mean Iraq has about 1/4 of the entire worlds remaining oil reserve.

If people do not think the U.S. government is aware of these facts they are simply ignorant.

If you also choose to believe that "the war cannot be about oil because production has gone down and prices have gone up" you are also stupid. The country is falling further into disarray because of our war, of course they are having problems producing commodities.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Tiny Stump wrote:
Mr. Manning, you are a stinking Dallas fan. Now that I have that out of the way...

You've done a lot of in-depth research that seems to check out when I view your sources, but I don't think this proves what you think it proves. It appears that the amount of crude oil imported from Iraq and the Persian Gulf has gone down, because we have begun to suck them dry. So we are decreasing our dependence on foreign Middle Eastern oil, but only because we've used it all.


This statement is completely idiotic.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Smily wrote:
Do you honestly not realize that the war in the nation of iraq is affecting the oil exports from the nation of iraq.

Take a look at the major exports in europe before WW2 and during/right afterwards, I would also bet that they weren't "producing" goods at their previous rates.

Most of the information about Iraqi oil fields are based on projections from decades ago. Many geologists believe that the current estimated iraqi oil reserve, 110 bbl, is grossly under estimated. A large group has speculated that there could be between an additional 100-200bbl in that uncharted territory.

If the smaller end of the spectrum were true it would put iraq into the top echelon of oil producing countries. If the higher end of the spectrum were true it would mean Iraq has about 1/4 of the entire worlds remaining oil reserve.

If people do not think the U.S. government is aware of these facts they are simply ignorant.

If you also choose to believe that "the war cannot be about oil because production has gone down and prices have gone up" you are also stupid. The country is falling further into disarray because of our war, of course they are having problems producing commodities.



The large majority of Iraq's oil exports are going to other countries, not the U.S.

Ironically, the oil/gas our military buys from Iraq over there to sustain itself is more expensive than what it is here. Personally our military should take whatever it needs free of charge to sustain the defense of the country. It's only fair.

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Last edited by Sentient on Wed May 07, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Smily wrote:
If you also choose to believe that "the war cannot be about oil because production has gone down and prices have gone up" you are also stupid. The country is falling further into disarray because of our war, of course they are having problems producing commodities.


The country is actually emerging from 30 years of hellish opression and hopelessness at the hands of a depraved tyrant and trying to make a better future for itself with our help. We did need to crack a lot of eggs to give them the chance to make this omlette, but the idea that the country is falling further into disarray at this point is just plain wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Iraq War is About Oil, then How Much Are We Getting?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Smily wrote:
Do you honestly not realize that the war in the nation of iraq is affecting the oil exports from the nation of iraq.

No, because Iraq is actually doing better than the first two years leading up to the war.

Smily wrote:
Take a look at the major exports in europe before WW2 and during/right afterwards, I would also bet that they weren't "producing" goods at their previous rates.

Those countries were also ground into dirt. I don't have any data on hand, but were these nations also doing worse in oil production before the war than during?

Smily wrote:
Most of the information about Iraqi oil fields are based on projections from decades ago. Many geologists believe that the current estimated iraqi oil reserve, 110 bbl, is grossly under estimated. A large group has speculated that there could be between an additional 100-200bbl in that uncharted territory.

If the smaller end of the spectrum were true it would put iraq into the top echelon of oil producing countries. If the higher end of the spectrum were true it would mean Iraq has about 1/4 of the entire worlds remaining oil reserve.

If people do not think the U.S. government is aware of these facts they are simply ignorant.

The data I'm providing on production, imports, and exports is current data, not projections. But I am understanding your "gold mine" theory.

Smily wrote:
If you also choose to believe that "the war cannot be about oil because production has gone down and prices have gone up" you are also stupid.

That's not quite my point. My point is that if the war is about oil, then we are getting ripped off. We are not getting more oil from Iraq when the conspiracy theorists claim the Bush Administration plotted to invade (2001) and prices have gone up. The U.S. isn't even getting a bigger percentage of the oil being pumped in Iraq (33% in 2001 versus 27% in 2006).

If you're claiming that the Bush Administration plotted to invade Iraq when imports were at their highest and prices were at their lowest merely because they wanted more, then you are the one that has some explaining to do.

Smily wrote:
The country is falling further into disarray because of our war, of course they are having problems producing commodities.

Again, the country is producing more oil than the years directly before the war.

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