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 Post subject: Churchill's Sinking of the French Fleet (July 3, 1940)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:48 am 
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Churchill's Sinking of the French Fleet
How do you inspire a nation and win public support? Simple, you attack the French. It'll piss off France, but your country will have a sense of satisfaction and purpose.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:02 am 
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When studying history, many lessons can be learned. For instance, trying to convince the French not to surrender is like trying to convince a dog not to eat his own crap. They're dogs - that's what they do.


Beautiful, just beautiful. :D

I shall now read the rest


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 Post subject: British Reparations?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Did the British Government ever make reparations to the French for sinking the fleet?


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 Post subject: Re: British Reparations?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:03 pm 
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MauriceReeves wrote:
Did the British Government ever make reparations to the French for sinking the fleet?

As far as I've been able to tell - no.

In Churchill as War Leader, the author strongly criticizes Churchill for not waiting longer to negotiate with the French commanders.

Churchill also did some history re-writing. I noted in the article that some French destroyers were able to escape. Churchill wrote in his memoirs that none escaped.

The author of Churchill as War Leader also provides evidence that after the war, Churchill spent time in the British archives making sure that knowledge of the French's determination to not let the Germans acquire the ships was suppressed.

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 Post subject: Re: British Reparations?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:34 pm 
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Scott wrote:
MauriceReeves wrote:
Did the British Government ever make reparations to the French for sinking the fleet?

As far as I've been able to tell - no.

In Churchill as War Leader, the author strongly criticizes Churchill for not waiting longer to negotiate with the French commanders.

Churchill also did some history re-writing. I noted in the article that some French destroyers were able to escape. Churchill wrote in his memoirs that none escaped.

The author of Churchill as War Leader also provides evidence that after the war, Churchill spent time in the British archives making sure that knowledge of the French's determination to not let the Germans acquire the ships was suppressed.


That's because it was all part of Churchill's secret plan to make sure that the French never could threaten the English again. That's really why he did it, not because he thought they were a threat or he made a mistake.

ITS A CONSPIRACY!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:51 pm 
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Interesting piece about an event that no one should care about. France may have been Churchill's "last fighting ally" at the time, but in a year's time, the Soviet Union would be there to overcompensate. Who needs weak allies like France when you've go the Soviet Union on your side?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:02 pm 
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Lenin's Lover wrote:
Interesting piece about an event that no one should care about. France may have been Churchill's "last fighting ally" at the time, but in a year's time, the Soviet Union would be there to overcompensate. Who needs weak allies like France when you've go the Soviet Union on your side?


The Soviet Navy was a joke. The only thing keeping the Germans out of England was the Royal Navy. With the French Navy in his pocket, Hitler could have occupied the Royal Navy or used it to supplement the commerce raiders in the North Atlantic that could have crippled Britain long before Stalin had stopped cowering in his bunker to do anything.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:36 pm 
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And Stalin did cower.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Stalin didn't cower; he prepared.

What you twits fail to realize is that regardless of how amazing this French Fleet that lasted ten minutes was, nothing could have stopped the 180 million Soviets who were ready to overtake Hitler and Germany. You can have the biggest navy in the world, but once you stepped onto Russian soil, your fate was sealed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:30 am 
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nothing could have stopped the 180 million Soviets who were ready to overtake Hitler and Germany. You can have the biggest navy in the world, but once you stepped onto Russian soil, your fate was sealed.


Your sole number is fucked, but that's immaterial. The important mistake in this post is that Germany's fate was sealed way before they attacked Stalin. Thankfully, while futile in the long term, that attack did much to destroy the Soviet capability to conquer continental Europe.

I'm amused by your mention of Russian soil considering the Soviet borders of that time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:18 am 
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In that war, he couldn't wait to make the politically expedient decision. He had to make sure that Hitler had no chance of Invading Britain.

Lenin, I wonder, you mention 180 million people. Were all those trained soldiers? Or are you just referring to every person that lived in Russia? I would refer you to Thermopylae as an example of what a highly trained force can do when fighting on prepared grounds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:46 am 
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Haha, 180 million trained soldiers? Right. What he's doing is actively beating Stalin at gross exaggaration and utter disregard for reality. Which isn't surprising really, considering he's one of the deluded who still believe in Communism.

The Soviet Census of 1937 showed a population figure of 162 million which wasn't quite the result Stalin had ordered. So he had everyone of any authority in the appropriate agency shot or imprisoned and ordered a new census... that achieved the same result, but prudently buried it in Soviet archives where it lay as "top secret" until 1990s. The official figure given to Stalin and announced publicly was 170 million, our dear revolutionary saw it fit to add an additional 10 million to this already false figure, probably in light of the heroic proletarian spirit of the great, mighty and just slightly underfed Soviet peoples, the same spirit that allowed -- at least according to Lenin's Lover here -- every woman, child, cripple and bureaucrat (including the 18 million imaginary ones) fight for the same motherland that tried so hard to exterminate them.

That's okay, though, a true revolutionary should never let something as insignificant as the facts stand in the way of the mighty dictatorship of the working class -- or at least to that of its (unelected) representatives.

P.S. As Brian here would likely remark, PWNT! :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:38 am 
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Yes Stalin did prepare. Prepared to attack Nazi Germany. For not one moment did he heed intelligence reports the Germans were about to attack. Perhaps this is why he took to his sick bed for three days after Barbarossa tore his forces to pieces.

The disaster at Kiev very nearly ended Stalin's career. The knives were out for him and it was only his swift and brutal reprisals which prevented Moscow from being largely abandoned. Herein lies the secret of Stalin's success, his willingness to resort to murderous methods to retain absolue power.

Regards Bob.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:57 pm 
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I have removed the comments concerning the French from the article. I meant it as a joke, but several readers have taken it very seriously. I'm not out to alienate people; I'm trying to inspire discussion.

Live and learn.

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